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 Post subject: By way of explanation
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:14 am 
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I have become lost in the temporal seas. Days and weeks blend into each other, a seamless whole in my memory left colored in beige. Nothing stands out; nothing happens; nothing matters; nothing changes.

How long has it been?

In any case. I draw back to a sense of time by need of urgent matters. I require life, and limb.

I return and intend to bring time back with me. I notice posts arrive, but sparse and infrequent. Who among you has what duties to which you must attend? Who among you can return our once and future glory?

To you I say; tell me what ails you, bring me your dead, and once again we shall rise.

I will be posting. Perhaps tomorrow as become today. Perhaps the day following. Days; they regain significance soon. To you: can you join, once in seven? Or should time hence be stretched, once in fourteen? I linger at seven, it has served us well.

A schedule. I must form one and keep to it, lest I grow lost again.

To you: let me hear your words.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:26 am 
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I think now that the majority of the craziness is over I can go back to once a week for every week except for finals week in 3 weeks. Other than that should be good.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:58 am 
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I can go once a week, easily. Been hoping for a return to a schedule really, since my muse has been kicking now and then and I need to breath some life into him again.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:33 pm 
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I was not really lost. I was checking on others and waiting for the plot to move itself along. Canti did not have anything else to say when last I checked, which was a mere five days ago. (Lately, I had taken a break to binge on Yu Yu Hakusho.) I have no great obligations that are time-consuming in the extreme as of now, so I am free to do as I like. Freedom, however, creates a lethargic feeling as well, and so the hours in which I am up and about to do things will vary. Nevertheless, when I feel the call to action (and I feel that call coming on about now), I will start cogitating on it, and think of something clever.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:45 am 
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I'm fine with a once a week schedule again. My home schedule has always been all over the board so unless things just get way hectic, I can usually get a post in without an issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:47 am 
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Seven. I need my ass kicked to post. Clearly, because it took me this long to see and read the announcement.

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm not good with open ended posts. It think the latest one is a good example. If I post, I tend to post in the dead of the night and finish it in one sitting. That's just how it worked for me. I'd like to try and fiddle with things but I have no idea what will happen when I DO. What happens when I hit the guy? What happens when I fiddle with X component? What happens if I fling myself out this window shouting 'Pancaaaakes!!' I don't know. I hate making it up as I go along because more often than not, what I come up with is ridiculous and would probably brutally pummel continuity, and yet I have trouble asking directly. Half because everyone's asleep when I post or because I'm just a generally shy, passive guy that doesn't want to be a bother and ask. Either way, that's my stopping block for at least this week. I'm sorry for ranting.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:03 am 
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I will say that a weekly schedule would probably work best for me.

However, this does not come without the realization of some thoughts that have been lingering in my head for some time. When it comes to mainplot, the original incentives for joining were as follows:
  • Having your player trapped in the World
  • Hacks
  • Being able to get away with almost any storyline in solos
  • Rewards for quests on an amplified scale of what subs was operating on
The first three seem to be at the very core of mainplot's DNA (at least the first two). The fourth, however, has come to be less and less true. Granted, activity's slowed to a trickle across both boards, but for a long time it seemed like all of the benefits that had been exclusive to mainplot were becoming slowly available for posters on subs. This was confirmed to me not once but twice when the armor I'd quested 94 pages for and failed to receive was given out to two individuals in that time who both exerted less effort than I did to get it. Of course I received the armor later, but at the very least the fourth incentive is in a very shaky position. Not that this is of terribly great importance, but it is something worth noting.

What else is worth noting is how close-minded you seem to be, Nighthand, to the ideas of others as concern the main quest. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing (as I know some of my ideas make most people scratch their heads and look at me funny), perhaps some degree of openness would be worth a shot. At the same time, I'll point to the fact that character interactions right now kinda suck. There are a few strong links here and there, but the characters themselves seem very detached from one another: like no one really cares about their teammates. This, too, is relatively easy to explain in character, but perhaps I mean to point to something else. I seem to remember a plotline that was told to me once about a player who left for a while, then came back in order to have his character make a grand exit (Argilus, I think it was). The entire main quest was turned towards this end in a manner that brought the focus on a single character in the main storyline. Nowadays, something like that would be unheard of. If I were to propose to you, Nighthand, that once we get out of Yamiyo the group be brought to deal with something in Dien's storyline, or Nighthand's, or Senna's, or anyone else's on the team, I can almost guarantee that you'd say no to it. This type of thing really gives me the impression that you don't care a hoot about any of our characters, because the plotlines you've developed have Heroes 1-3, Villains 1-3, and then a bunch of riffraff characters who have no real say or impact on anything at all--like the identities of your soldiers are inconsequential so long as they can kill stuff.

Perhaps what I should ask for in the future is more autonomy all around. One of the reasons why I think the quest immediately after my recruitment did so well was because you gave us a sandbox environment and let us pick out for ourselves how events unfolded within a relatively loose set of guidelines.

I'll say no more, but I am eager to hear what you have to say to these thoughts in my head. And please take no offense, as none was intended.

(P.S. I also don't like the lack of information regarding our ability to leave Yamiyo, because by trapping us here you've killed my ability to write solos until we again have access to the rest of The World)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:37 am 
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Just poppin' in to say that I agree with Dien that a greater focus on individual character storylines might be nice...although, for some of us, that might hard, and certainly this story arc would be hard (how many people of ours could find Yamiyo and/or get us out?)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Finals are done and I go back home tomorrow so once a week is good for me again.

As for the focus on individual story lines I think that that would give an undue sense of grand importance for one character over everybody else. By doing that I feel that, in the case Dien presented, that by focusing on a point in his story that we're giving the sense that his character is so much more important than everybody else's, and there's no guarantee that that would inspire greater teamwork either.

To the whole rewards thing that was just specifically EC I believe and a number of us bitched about it but what it comes down to is they're running it, we're not apart of it, and that's that. There's nothing we can do about it so we let it go. That was up to the jurisdiction of the people running that specific quest and what's done is done.

I personally don't mind the storyline, I think its progressing fine, and the interactions between players is being left up to us like it should be. If we made Nights sit down and hold our hand through our entire stay in mainplot it would take away a majority of the freedom that makes mainplot desirable. Its not his responsibility whether we interact or not, its ours and its up to us. If you want better teamwork go out and be proactive in making it happen, we're not here to be babysat.

EDIT: And the player you're thinking of is I believe Kurai, with the hacked Tree Spear and all that but that was a long time ago and main functioned a lot differently. That was you make 2 paragraph posts a day and the storyline flew.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:11 pm 
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Dien wrote:
However, this does not come without the realization of some thoughts that have been lingering in my head for some time. When it comes to mainplot, the original incentives for joining were as follows:
  • Having your player trapped in the World
  • Hacks
  • Being able to get away with almost any storyline in solos
  • Rewards for quests on an amplified scale of what subs was operating on

Quick response: the first and third, as well as the chance to be part of the larger on-going story, were the incentives. It's been repeatedly stated that you shouldn't come to Main for the hacks or the rewards; we want you here for the story, not for the trinkets you gain.
Dien wrote:
The first three seem to be at the very core of mainplot's DNA (at least the first two). The fourth, however, has come to be less and less true. Granted, activity's slowed to a trickle across both boards, but for a long time it seemed like all of the benefits that had been exclusive to mainplot were becoming slowly available for posters on subs.

When Mainplot was traveling at a pace of 2-6 posts a day, quests finished much faster, sometimes even faster than the fastest solos to come from Subs. This lead to rewards not only coming in larger, but in greater frequency. Though of course there was the abuse of Asgard, who rewarded in excess of 10 levels on occasion and was bitched out of office for it. However, Main still has decidedly large rewards, assuming a few things. Activity of it's members is a prime factor, and when quests barely move, they drag on longer and longer.

I AM trying to boost this. I won't be breaking the 5-level max any time soon, barring exemplary performance, but I will be splitting long quests into 2 or even 3 smaller threads that will be graded more often. The trouble is, if we only get 1-2 posts a week, quests still take forever.
Dien wrote:
This was confirmed to me not once but twice when the armor I'd quested 94 pages for and failed to receive was given out to two individuals in that time who both exerted less effort than I did to get it. Of course I received the armor later, but at the very least the fourth incentive is in a very shaky position. Not that this is of terribly great importance, but it is something worth noting.

Again, as mentioned above, you shouldn't be here for the fancy armor and weapons, you should be here for the story and the unique aspects of Main. Also, as mentioned in a previous post; I don't control the graders on Subs. If they end up rewarding people better, or deeming 'less effort' more 'worthy' of the item you want, there's nothing I can do. Besides, you all know my opinion on page count by now.
Dien wrote:
What else is worth noting is how close-minded you seem to be, Nighthand, to the ideas of others as concern the main quest. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing (as I know some of my ideas make most people scratch their heads and look at me funny), perhaps some degree of openness would be worth a shot.

I may be close-minded (though I don't think I am; I at least listen to ideas, when people have the willpower to say them. The problem lies if no one approaches me. I can't be close-minded about things none of you bother to say to me.
Dien wrote:
At the same time, I'll point to the fact that character interactions right now kinda suck. There are a few strong links here and there, but the characters themselves seem very detached from one another: like no one really cares about their teammates. This, too, is relatively easy to explain in character, but perhaps I mean to point to something else.

Aside from interactions with the now-legion NPCs around, that's all on your collective heads. If you all won't collaborate and make your characters interact, I'm not going to force you to. It's like herding cats sometimes, but it's either that or make it so linear and forced it's boring.

Those NPCs by the way are always available whenever I'm around and online.
Dien wrote:
I seem to remember a plotline that was told to me once about a player who left for a while, then came back in order to have his character make a grand exit (Argilus, I think it was). The entire main quest was turned towards this end in a manner that brought the focus on a single character in the main storyline. Nowadays, something like that would be unheard of.

It was Kurai, to be precise. Though several others have been granted the privilege of being the focus; Hijinx, Asgard, and Tokki at least. For a quick run-down:

Kurai's return thread was perhaps the most epic and longest-lasting. Then his thread split off into several (which seemed like a good idea at the time.) This is a time when Main was getting 2-4 or more posts a day. Then Kurai left early. As he was the only GM and only one who knew what was going on, we were left hanging for a full month without a single post before Nall stepped in to end it (which resulted in Royce stealing the Treeweaver and handing it over to Xenobia, making her one of our toughest foes.)

Hijinx's thread was incomprehensible and ended up devolving into little more than "let's see if Hijinx is stronger than Nall with two Twilight Items" (which turns out is a no.) It ended up lasting eight months for four pages of posts with substandard enthusiasm, participation, and enjoyment.

Asgard devoted his entire GMship to his own backstory with the Admins. None of that was Divergence-Canon before him. At the time there were complaints that it was terribly sidetracked, and even today it's remembered as being fanservice. It was often Asgard versus a giant boss while everyone else fought underlings. While this still sort of holds true today, I've been gathering people to a higher level so that they can face the bosses themselves.

Tokki's was short-lived and sHe quickly went another way.
Dien wrote:
If I were to propose to you, Nighthand, that once we get out of Yamiyo the group be brought to deal with something in Dien's storyline, or Nighthand's, or Senna's, or anyone else's on the team, I can almost guarantee that you'd say no to it. This type of thing really gives me the impression that you don't care a hoot about any of our characters, because the plotlines you've developed have Heroes 1-3, Villains 1-3, and then a bunch of riffraff characters who have no real say or impact on anything at all--like the identities of your soldiers are inconsequential so long as they can kill stuff.

I've been working to incorporate more of you into the plotlines. There will be several things brought to the fore in Yamiyo (after all, where do hackers go after they're done fucking with you?) later. The trouble is, almost universally, every time I attempt to trust a certain scenario to the one or two people I've tailored it to, those people either don't post, post late after everyone else has thrown their faces against it, or (in a few cases) leave Main entirely before they can solve it.

How would you incorporate players who are fickle and flicker in and out of presence?
Dien wrote:
Perhaps what I should ask for in the future is more autonomy all around. One of the reasons why I think the quest immediately after my recruitment did so well was because you gave us a sandbox environment and let us pick out for ourselves how events unfolded within a relatively loose set of guidelines.

There have to be linear paths between sandboxes, or else there's no need for a GM. Then again, what happens with sandboxes? Say an open-ended computer you can ask anything of? Indecision keeps people from posting, or something else gets in the way. Besides: what did you think was going to happen once we arrive in the town? I've been going out of my way to suggest not just that we should be going there asap (not to the towers or up the stairs) but that since most of the people there don't know who we even are, we'll be able to relatively freely wander the town.
Dien wrote:
I'll say no more, but I am eager to hear what you have to say to these thoughts in my head. And please take no offense, as none was intended.

(P.S. I also don't like the lack of information regarding our ability to leave Yamiyo, because by trapping us here you've killed my ability to write solos until we again have access to the rest of The World)

Here, I'll say it. We won't be leaving Yamiyo for a while. How long depends on what we end up doing, precisely, because there are a LOOOOOT of options here. As long as you consult me on details you can even write solos here. Not to mention the vast options available to us, up to and including assaulting an Elite directly in their tower.

Now this whole thing may be spastic because I've been writing it among a lot of distractions but I think I've covered most of the points.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:40 am 
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To reiterate what Nights and Raq have already said (Tak may have as well, I'm still recovering from braindead), character interaction relies solely on the person you want to interact with and it's up to you to initiate it. TL;DR explanation: Start somethin' yourself and work with people if you want that.

I'm checking in every so often but, I lost the motivation (and muse) to post. Haven't been able to post or write for them and have it considered quality/good enough for mainplot. Sounds like a copout but, it's how I genuinely feel. If I can't bring about Main style quality, I shouldn't be posting.

And... I don't really have anything to add. XD You know I adore your legion of NPCs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:52 am 
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Although I didn't say that, it is true. I'm always open to character interaction, but it's the nature of my character to be selective about it (he's paranoid after all) so he's not going to walk up and start talking unless he has to for some reason.

On a side note, he has a good point that rewards would be better if people posted more quickly. Although this round isn't exactly an example of my speed with posting, the fact that I was the first one to post after more than a week is sad with how many people said that a weekly schedule would be fine (including myself here). EC got massive rewards in short amounts of time, in part, because we had a weekly schedule that was kept to for nearly the entirety of the quest. No getting out of it, if you hadn't posted by then, you simply didn't get a post in. Three strikes and you were out unless you had a good excuse. Not to blame Nights here but...Main doesn't do that, there's a hell of a lot more leeway in posting time, and as a result people don't try and bust out a post because they can just take a while. The speed of quests, therefore, is pretty much all our fault.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:43 pm 
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I can't give as little leeway as the EC most of the time... it's sad, but true. If I kicked people from the quest on a three-strikes rule... Well, how many of you would be left? Not to mention that if I kept to a weekly schedule despite not posting, a lot of things would be overridden. For example, we would have come up to the control tower, no one would have posted the first week, and then I'd have nowhere to go but back down and everyone would have missed their chance.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:14 pm 
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That's how it was with my first EC quest, Nights. Really, the only way you'll get it to work - and it'll weed out the ones who aren't really adding anything - is to just hit the ground running with it. Give a week or two warning, letting people know, and I guarantee you wouldn't lose everyone. You'd lose some, for sure, but, as I said, it'll be the people who are only holding the quest back as it is. You'll get a stronger core group that'll grow with time and with understanding from the people you may have dropped off at first.

Up to you in the end, of course, but I'll be able to post once a week again with no problemo once I'm up and running.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:29 am 
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late!

I agree, enforced rules on time limits would be good. But alternately, might be a good idea to send notices to people in danger of getting kicked, and more important, send messages to everyone when there's a change in the posting schedule.

For instance, if you go to scripting with us individually instead of GM posts for a while, then notify us when the hard-and-fast weekly posts resume, or if you have to take a few weeks off, let us know when things start again.

Personally? when I stop posting it's usually because I flat-out forget to keep checking, not that I'm not interested, and I suspect there are others who are the same.

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